Curse

Longasc · Nov 17, 2007, 10:38 AM // 10:38

We know that Ursan Blessing is an extremely powerful PvE elite. Reports of bear groups rampaging through the Domain of Anguish, Shards of Orr and the Underworld abound.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ursan_Blessing

At norn level 10 It offers +200 health, +20 armor and a 3 second recharge ranged dual attack doing 2x75=150 armor ignoring damage. Furthermore, it is unaffected by blindness and stances.

The other attacks add weakness, attack buffs and other kinds of crazy buffs and debuffs.

My balancing suggestions try to give this bear blessing more drawbacks, while letting it remain very strong. I do not want to make it disappear through the nerfhammer.

My ideas:

0.) Half the Health Bonus and the Armor bonus to +100 and +10 max, starting at +50 and +5 with low rank and progressing slowly.

1.) Ursan Strike, 1C, 3R
Skill. You deal +40...75 damage to your target twice.

Change to: Attack skill. You deal +40...66 physical damage to your target twice.

This attack will also require you to attack at close range, no longer being ranged. It will also take armor in account, and as an attack skill it will trigger e.g. Paragon Anthems and other skills while you will still be subject to blindness, evasive stances or 50% failure chance hexes. This is the "core" of the balancing idea.

2.) Ursan Rage, 1C, 10R
Skill. You deal 60...135 damage to all adjacent foes. Struck foes are also knocked down for 2 seconds.

Change to: You deal 50...100 physical damage to target foe and foes adjacent to your target. 15 seconds recharge. Change KD wording, a normal KD is 2 seconds after all, no need to mention that extra.

The idea here is to give this an attack and KD cone in front of the bear, you might have noticed that foe and adjacent foes is the wording of Hundred Blades. So imagine the bear pranks hitting all guys in front, but not those to the sides and behind.

3.) Ursan Roar, 15R
Shout. For 2...5 seconds, all enemies within earshot are Weakened and all allies deal +5...15 damage per attack

Weakness is incredibly powerful in hard mode, but at least this requires the bears to "chain" their shouts. Can be left like that, NO CHANGE.

4.) Ursan Force, 12 Recharge
Skill. For 8...14 seconds, you move 20...33% faster.

Could be changed to a stance, but no real need to change that.

Other things that could be changed:

a.) Bear Forms depends on your max energy and also takes advantage of soul reaping and zealous weapons. Also, energy regeneration does not go down if you use a dual +15/-1 high energy set, it is fixed -2.

Suggestions:
- disable primary attributes, like in the Junundu
- all professions start at a fixed 35 energy
- only gain energy when you deal damage, not on enemy damage
- zealous weapons should not give benefits either

b.) visual marker that the player is in bear form
Ideally it would transform into a bear or give you a ghostly bear shape, like the skills already do. But a blue glowing "boss aura" would already be enough.

Asking a pretty female elementalist "Are you still in bear form?" should not result in answers like "you think I am fat?", you should be able to see if someone is in bear form by yourself.

Div · Nov 17, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

I'm all for changing ursan blessing to make PvE less generic and let the classes have more meaning, but I have a feeling the OP is going to get flamed. That's usually what happens when anyone suggests a nerf.

Faer · Nov 17, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Don't worry about that; we'll be enforcing a strict "contribute positively or STFU" policy here. It'll be nice to have a decent discussion about what can be done with the skill for once, instead of a rant session between two brick walls.

English Warrior · Nov 17, 2007, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Why Nerf it its making life easier for us i don't see your problem except ruining peoples favorite skill

BlackSephir · Nov 17, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeds

Why Nerf it its making life easier for us i don't see your problem except ruining peoples favorite skill

So you also wouldn't see problems if AN introduced PissedOff Was ANet, 5e, 0r, shout, all mobs drop dead?

zwei2stein · Nov 17, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

I am all for making it prone to shutdown, stoping being armor ignoring and giving player less of god mode.

Sister Rosette · Nov 17, 2007, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

So you also wouldn't see problems if AN introduced PissedOff Was ANet, 5e, 0r, shout, all mobs drop dead?

Farming would be a lot easier.

pumpkin pie · Nov 17, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

/not signed

I haven't even reach that part yet. And I want to enjoy that power when I reach it. *edit: i alread have the skill, just don't actually need to use it.

In my humble opinion, I think this is ridiculous, on one side when ANet nerf necro's SR to be less powerful, people wants it back the way it is, when ANet nerf pets to have no corpese, players wants it back the way it is, why nerf something when you know people are going to complain. even before the neft people already complain. so why? And on the other side people wants title to be account base, basically making the game less grind, with ursan blessing you can grind less and achieve things faster, this is not making things balance. its just making the game as you wish it to be, and not base on what all the players wants. How is one player using ursan blessing going to unbalanced anyone other player's game? *edit cos I don't use Ursan Blessing. i like my skill bar.

I've state my opinion, if Anet still thinks they want to nerf it. then I have nothing to say.

Happy Days.

Antheus · Nov 17, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

There's one problem with Ursan and other blessings.

Make them non-superior, and they join the long list of useless skills.

The only thing needed to permanently kill Ursan Blessing is to make damage dealt my attack not armor ignoring. Everything else can remain exactly the same, but the skill, and consequently ursanway become useless.

I've been in a few ursan groups. It's far from all the hype that's being tossed around. For many/most areas it's even vastly inferior to any semblance of balanced group. IMHO, nerf it, buff it, it doesn't really matter. Not anymore.

Cloud5646 · Nov 17, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Ursan blessing is a great idea that lets void classes actually get groups.
I, as an assassin player, love it.

MrDark88 · Nov 17, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud5646

Ursan blessing is a great idea that lets void classes actually get groups.
I, as an assassin player, love it.

QFT.

You beat me to it. Me as a Dervish, find it very useful.

Sleeper Service · Nov 17, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

how about Anet buff assassins in order to be a clearcut VIABLE class in pve?

because atm, youre not playing sin, youre playing bear.

oh. wait, they cant do that can they. the universe would implode.

MithranArkanere · Nov 17, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Ursan blessing is a PvE skill. So it's out of balance's jurisdiction.

PvE skills should only be fixed to prevent exploits...

In the case of Norn Blessings I'd change them so profession is not important, like making them all have 60 energy and disabling the first attribute (like inside a Junundu). Currently, Mesmer, Monk, Ritualist and Dervish has no advantages while Strenght, Expertise, Soul Reaping, Energy storage, Critical hits and Leadership work under the blessing.

MrDark88 · Nov 17, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Ursan blessing is a PvE skill. So it's out of balance's jurisdiction.

PvE skills should only be fixed to prevent exploits...

In the case of Norn Blessings I'd change them so profession is not important, like making them all have 60 energy and disabling the first attribute (like inside a Junundu). Currently, Mesmer, Monk, Ritualist and Dervish has no advantages while Strenght, Expertise, Soul Reaping, Energy storage, Critical hits and Leadership work under the blessing.

I think that if someone enchants the Dervish, they will still gain the energy from Mysticism. I can't log on right now, but I think Mysticism still works under the blessing, anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

MithranArkanere · Nov 17, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Yes, it works, but I mean 'standalone'.

ValaOfTheFens · Nov 17, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

/not signed

I haven't even reach that part yet. And I want to enjoy that power when I reach it.

In my humble opinion, I think this is ridiculous, on one side when ANet nerf necro's SR to be less powerful, people wants it back the way it is, when ANet nerf pets to have no corpese, players wants it back the way it is, why nerf something when you know people are going to complain. even before the neft people already complain. so why? And on the other side people wants title to be account base, basically making the game less grind, with ursan blessing you can grind less and achieve things faster, this is not making things balance. its just making the game as you wish it to be, and not base on what all the players wants. How is me using ursan blessing going to unbalanced anyone other player's game?

I've state my opinion, if Anet still thinks they want to nerf it. then I have nothing to say.

Happy Days.

People aren't trying to deprive others of power. Its all about balance. Last week every time I went to ToA to get into a FoW group the place was filled to the brim with people who only wanted to use UB. I don't have GWEN and will not for a week or two and so now I can't get into a group because of it. UB isn't as good as you'd think. Not because it isn't powerful but because most people don't know how to coordinate their attacks and thats what you have to do to get the most out of UB. Alot of the better players have taken to UB farming and the rest of us are left with jerks and idiots. Just yesterday I finally got into a FoW group and our tank ragequitted because no one would sell him a key.

I don't like dealing with foolish people but I refuse to farm using UB(when I finally get GWEN).

I don't want UB to be nerfed into uselessness b/c its a cool skill but its bonuses need to be adjusted a bit to give the rest of use non-UB people a chance.

AW Lore · Nov 17, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

i think a good way to achieve compromise with this skill is to let it keep its damage potential, but as others have said, let it get some drawbacks.

reducing the damage or making it physical could weaken it by itself a lot more than reducing the health or armor.

making the attack skill be a melee attack that requires to hit will help it be vulnerable to blind, stances and hexes, diminishing its efective raw power.

also other suggestion that sound good are:

Quote:

- all professions start at a fixed 35 energy
- only gain energy when you deal damage, not on enemy damage
- zealous weapons should not give benefits either

to those i would like to add a third pipe of degen to the energy, so that even when in battle, the player cannot keep the blessing for as long as the battle lasts and the skill can help, but not do the entire job.

Jaimus · Nov 17, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Perhaps a change of the skills is not in order, but the blessing itself. The energy degen keeps you from keeping it up while not attacking. Why not change the energy degen to a point where the blessing will end eventually no matter what and attacking/ using skills only postpones the end of it.

Where the energy degen is so much you cannot earn more energy than that which is being lost. Also increase the recharge time (I forget at the moment) of the skill to that of an avatar. thus making the sheer power relevant.
That I think would give a great balance while keeping fans of the skill happy.

MrDark88 · Nov 17, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

If they were to increase the energy regen, I think the skill would only last 10-35s, depending on the battle situation. If they were to do that, don't you think that it would become a wasted Elite slot?

I think the energy setup for the skill now is fine because you have to constantly be in battle in order to keep it up, while having little to no time to rest, which is bad for casters if they have no decent e-management.

Ursan Blessing has given me and some people an option where they can play a certain area in which their profession is not an affective option.

Like MithranArkanere said: set all primary attributes to 0 while having the blessing.

On a side note: What about Volven Blessing? I find it to be pretty decent.

Kiasyd117 · Nov 17, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I would venture that Anet has already tried to control UB's power by making it an elite skill, and as for it ravaging through PvE areas, I fail to see how this raises concern when 55 monks have completely ruined the game economy beyond the point of recovery, remember when Sup Vigor wasn't buy one get one free and ectos were worth more than glittering dust. And since the bulk of the damage to PvE gameplay has already been done by the UB abusers, I fail to see how any skill balance no matter how drastic at this point would serve any purpose other than just punative enjoyment. Besides it's easy for us to sit in judgement of Anet since we have the luxury of only focusing on one skill or aspect of gameplay instead of monitoring every little thing that goes on in the game as a whole.